What Your Vet Wishes You Understood About Them

What Your Vet Wishes You Understood About Them

Episode Summary
Most pet parents see veterinarians during some of the most stressful moments of pet ownership: when a pet is sick, injured, aging, or facing an expensive medical decision. But what many people never see is the pressure veterinarians themselves are carrying into those conversations.

In this episode, Amy Castro talks with equine veterinarian, stand-up comedian, and author Dr. Matt Evans about the human side of veterinary medicine, why money and treatment decisions can feel so hard on both sides of the exam room, how humor can help people connect under stress, and what pet parents can do to build a better relationship with their veterinary team.

About Dr. Matt Evans
Dr. Matt Evans is an equine veterinarian who practices outside of Austin, Texas. In addition to being a horse doctor, Matt is also a stand-up comedian performing around Austin and beyond. His upcoming book, Chomping at the Bit, follows his journey into veterinary medicine with humor, humility, impostor syndrome, and stories from life as a horse vet.

Learn more about Matt at MattEvansComic.com.

Chapters
00:00 What your vet wishes you understood
03:20 The person behind the veterinarian role
07:16 Why vet care costs what it does
10:21 Hard conversations and high emotions
14:30 How humor helps lower stress
20:46 Why prepared clients have better conversations
23:00 When communication goes both ways
28:32 Matt’s comedy and upcoming book
31:02 Final takeaway for pet parents

Transcript
Amy Castro, Host (00:00)
Most people think veterinarians spend their days loving on puppies and kittens. But veterinary medicine also means hard conversations, financial stress, impossible decisions, death, pressure, and people who are sometimes angry, scared, or heartbroken. In this episode, Dr. Matt Evans and I are talking about what your vet wishes pet parents understood about them, and how seeing the human being behind the role can help you have better conversations, make better decisions, and get better care for your pets. I'm your host, Amy Castro, and I'm here to help you cut through the noise and turn expert advice into step-by-step strategies so you can stop chasing your tail and start enjoying life with pets again. Welcome back to the show. Today we are talking about something that pet parents don't always get to see: the human side of veterinary medicine. My guest is Dr. Matt Evans, an equine veterinarian who practices outside of Austin, Texas. In addition to being a horse doctor, Matt is also a stand-up comedian, and you can watch him at shows around Austin and beyond. He's also the author of an upcoming book, Chomping at the Bit, which follows his path into equine veterinary medicine with plenty of humility, pressure, imposter syndrome, and humor along the way. But in this conversation, we're talking about the pressures that veterinarians carry, why money and treatment decisions can feel so hard on both sides of the exam room, how humor can help people connect under stress, and what pet parents can do to build a better relationship with their veterinary team. And I want to say this from a really personal place because I work really closely with the veterinarians, not only in my professional work, but through the rescue and doing this podcast. Veterinary medicine is not just emotionally hard, it's a profession with a serious mental health crisis. Studies have found that vets face elevated suicide risk compared to the general population. And one national survey found that about one in six veterinarians has considered suicide. This episode is not about feeling sorry for your vet or not advocating for your pet. It's about remembering that everyone in that room except your pet is human. And the better we communicate, the better chance we have for helping the animals in front of us. So, Dr. Evans, thanks for being here and welcome to the show.


Matt Evans, DVM (02:37)
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today.


Amy Castro, Host (02:41)
Sure. As somebody that works in veterinary offices with veterinarians, I get to see a lot of the other side, which I think has really changed how I interact with veterinarians and their staff. But a lot of people don't get to see that. So I'm I'm grateful to have the opportunity to kind of give people a little bit of insight as to what you see as a veterinarian when you're interacting with folks and caring for their pets. so what do you think is maybe one of the bigger things that people just don't see about the person behind the role of veterinarian?



Matt Evans, DVM (03:16)
I think people get hung up on the title of veterinarian. You know, you're a doctor and


Matt Evans, DVM (03:20)
and that's all they see is that professional. And I I just would love for the people listening today to to remember there's a human who became that doctor. and so that that they have all the same stress as you do. You know, they carry all those same things into the exam room. and so I one thing that I think is really interesting and for people to think about is that if you become a veterinarian, you did really well in undergrad. Like, you know, it's I think 10% acceptance rate. And so those people could have done anything. They could have been physicians or dentists or anything they wanted, really. Um, but they chose to be veterinarians even though the income to debt ratio is not high. The type of person who becomes a veterinarian, not only do they love animals, they chose animals over any other occupation. Loving animals comes from a lot of compassion, and so they come from a place where they have big feelings and are very sensitive too. And so they're just as invested in your patient as you are, yeah.


Amy Castro, Host (04:18)
We could do a whole episode about people's misconceptions about vets being loaded and how much money. I mean, I see the receipts for the equipment that they buy and I know what they pay their staff and just the things that vets have to put up with. I mean, not only are they getting bitten by their patients, but they're getting bitten by their patients' people too. It's like kind of the double whammy. And I think the other thing that you said I think is is really key for people to understand is a lot of them got into it because of the compassion for the animals, like you said, and a preference for interacting with animals, and they don't necessarily have strong, like assertive communication skills. So oftentimes they're just as scared about having that conversation as as you are when you're having it with them. So I think we get caught with that, what do they call it, white coat syndrome, where it's like, oh, this is an authority and they're so separate and different than me, and they're really not.


Matt Evans, DVM (05:08)
Yeah, definitely not.


Amy Castro, Host (05:09)
Yeah, yeah. So when you first became a vet, what do you think surprised you most about kind of making that transition from I'm just a guy to I'm the guy that people are looking to for answers?


Matt Evans, DVM (05:20)
Yeah, I think that the the authority that came with the title of doctor was kind of a shock that people expected me to make decisions for them. And it's like they ask you questions like in your experience, you know. Well, if like when my experience, you know, if I see one more of these tomorrow, that'll be two. there you go. And so yeah. so you don't have a lot of experience to to build on, and then it and people are like, what would you do if it's your animal? And and as a new young vet, that's a very hard question to answer. Now, 23 years later, I've been asked that question a billion times, and I'm really used to putting myself in that shoes. So I that's a question I'm ready to answer. I've already made up my mind what I would do if it was my animal. And so I'm it I don't push that on the people, but if they if they're gonna ask me, Well, what would you choose? I will tell them this is what I would choose based on observing X number of these cases and the outcome and cost and everything. So those are hard questions.


Amy Castro, Host (06:14)
Yeah. And even when we put people in the position of asking that question, and even if they have an answer, it's like they're not you. I don't know what you've got in your bank account, and you don't know what I've got in mine. And, you know, it's people some of the things that I see that people will do with their pets, I say to myself, there's no way I would put my pet through that, or there's no way I would put myself through that. So I guess to a certain degree, it's comforting to people to ask that question if the answer agrees with what you're already thinking. yeah, it's kind of it's kind of a tough question to ask anybody, I think. You know, people these days especially are complaining a lot about, you know, how much just pet care in general, how much does food cost? Why is vet care so expensive? and and there's a lot of kind of stress and anxiety around that from the standpoint of the pet parent going into the office, like, eh, what is this gonna cost me this time? But what kind of pressures do you think veterinarians carry that their clients might not even realize from that perspective?


Matt Evans, DVM (07:11)
Yeah, from the financial perspective, I I would love for clients to understand like veterinarian 

Matt Evans, DVM (07:16)
medicine is not subsidized by the government in any way. So nobody's helping us provide this service to you. So we're true businesses. And whether it's a small business owned by the veterinarian, or it's owned by a corporation, which people have a lot of negative feelings about. Either way about it, it's a business and it needs to operate as such. And so you have the overhead for the building, you have the overhead for all the employees, uh, you have all the medications, the equipment, all of that stuff has to be paid for. And none of those people, the person you're paying rent to, your employees expect to be paid, the drug company expects to be paid. Nobody has any empathy for the fact that you're caring for animals. So they're all in businesses too. and so all those things have to be covered, and so that's where price setting comes in and why things cost so much. There's some negatives to corporate medicine, but in general, the price increase you're seeing is in inflation and then bringing it up to where it should be. When you compare profit margins in veterinary medicine compared to profit margins in almost any other industry, they're minuscule. A really well-run clinic is gonna profit, you know, 5%, 7%. Any other business would be like, well, that's not worth the effort. We're not gonna do it for that. I was a small business owner for 21 years. Me and my partner ran our business. So all day, every day I had the same issues to deal with that any small business owner has, which is like, where are we gonna get the money to pay rent? Because I had three employees call in a day, we're out of rabies vaccine for some reason, you know, um, all those things. And then I had to also practice veterinary medicine. So when you everybody's like, oh, I just want to go to a mom and pop veterinary clinic, and that's wonderful support local business. But uh, you need to understand the stress that that person is is under. It's like you have to deal with all those small business owner stresses, and then you have to stop and put on the hat of a veterinarian. And so the the stress I might carry into an exam room or to a barn aisle in my case as a practice owner was a lot. So the pros sometimes of just being able to be an associate. If you're at a clinic where you're seeing an associate or you're at a corporate veterinary clinic, the pro of that is that the veterinary you're seeing is just there to work on your animal. They aren't having to worry about what happens when the x-ray machine breaks. So there's pros and cons to both, but everybody's carrying that burden and everybody has the expectation that they need to charge enough to pay everybody so we can all make a living. And veterans are not making anywhere near the money that a human dermatologist or a human dentist is making.


Amy Castro, Host (09:35)
Well, what about the people side of things from a pressure standpoint? Does vet school prepare you for the tough conversations that you have to have with people or putting up with people who are angry or crying or whatever it might be?


Matt Evans, DVM (09:49)
I think they're doing better now than they ever have. they're focusing on that and they have scenarios where the students get to deliver hard news to people and the acting scenarios and things like that. Uh, you know, in the 1990s. No. They weren't preparing me at all. Um, you know, you watch your mentors do it. You watch the people you're learning from at school have those conversations, and then when you're out traveling and visiting practices, you see it, but there's nothing like doing that yourself. Um, and so no, those are skills that that people have to learn on the job. Um, and so dealing with angry clients, dealing with disappointed


Matt Evans, DVM (10:21)
clients, uh, dealing with clients that think you are just in it for the money. Um, it's like you have to you have to learn those as you go. And so yeah, if people could have grace for veterinarians, you know what I recommend to new young veterinarians. We have interns at our practice, and so actually it's new intern day. So we got two new interns today. Um, and so it's very exciting. But you know, they're gonna get to for a year have those conversations with mentorship and guidance, you know, and that's really important. But a lot of especially in small animal medicine, internships are not common. People typically go out and go right to work, and so they have to have to learn that as they go. Whoever hired them can lose money on them for a little while, but at some point they need to see cases on their own and be able to produce like any other veterinarian, and that means being in the room on their own with clients and having hard conversations very soon into their training. It's a hard situation for people to be in. and you know, we have empathy for y'all. We know everybody we see is really not on their best day, except for maybe puppy vaccines. Right. But um, but yeah, they they're about to take the animal they love the most with all this emotion, and then they're about to spend money that they that they weren't planning on spending. And a lot of times they don't have an idea of what things may or may not cost. Um, and so there there's a lot of sticker shock. And so a lot of the people we're talking to, if we ran into them anywhere else, we would get along famously. But you know, we've added several levels of stress to our interaction.


Amy Castro, Host (11:44)
Right. Yeah, and I think people complain sometimes that vets seem rushed or they're not looking me in the eye because they're typing on the computer. You know, we've got a lot of complaints, but if you think about it, the veterinarian who's having that tough interaction with you because you're going through a tough situation, has two or three other people waiting in exam rooms to have the same thing, and they just had five before you. So, you know, imagine doing that day in and day out. you you're praying for those puppy vaccine days, I bet.


Matt Evans, DVM (12:13)
Oh, you love it. Yeah, you're ready for a few of those appointments or a break for sure. You know, you get into it because you're intelligent and you and you love the the medicine too, and and then so you want the challenging cases that make your brain work, but those really make your your empathy and your communication skills work really hard too. So then you run into a a vaccine and you're like, oh thank goodness, you know, your animal looks great. Here's this. Yes, have a nice day. It's so good to talk to you. Yeah, yeah, and and you're on all day. It's I joke, I do stand-up comedy, and I tell people like I've been doing stand-up comedy long before I ever got on a stage. I just didn't realize it because you're on, you're doing a little performance for every client that you're with. You're trying to keep them happy, keep them entertained, keep them engaged, and communicate thoroughly, keep it light. And so that's exhausting when you do that 20 times, even if it all day long it was a good day, even if it was all good news and everything went swimmingly. at the end of the day, you're just like, Whoa, that was a lot of humanity.


Amy Castro, Host (13:08)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. As we say around here, that was a lot of peopleing because I I talk to people all day when I'm doing my speaking and training, and my husband kind of used to make fun of me. He'd be like, Oh, honey, did you have to work a half a day today? Or did you have to do a whole two-hour presentation? I'm like, you don't understand. Like how because it's exactly what you said. You're on, you know, and people are looking at you and they're analyzing everything you say. Um, and you know, you mentioned this the stand-up comedy. How much do you bring humor into your interactions with people in the practice?


Matt Evans, DVM (13:40)
Or I mean, I'm assuming it's there's probably some times where it's not appropriate, but there's definitely times when it's not appropriate, but I I try to bring it in at all times when we're not in the most gray situations. You know, there's a couple of reasons, like I didn't realize I was doing it until I've got in the stand-up and started thinking about the role of humor and people's interactions is so important. But horses are prey animals, and so they're always reading everybody's body language. And so when the veterinarian's nervous about the procedure or about the communication, and then the client's anxious because the horse is not well, we're all giving off these horrible body language cues that were that were anxious, and they don't, you know, I don't know what they think in their heads, but they might be thinking these people are obviously about to get eaten by lions, they look terrified. Um, and so if I can make my technician laugh, if I can make the client laugh, um,


Matt Evans, DVM (14:30)
like if we're la horses are geniuses with this, absolute savant said picking up on this that laughing humans, smiling humans are safe humans. We're in a safe place. And so the horse is easier to work on and then and then their their situation. Now I think I always realize that. Um, but then what I came to realize and what I've learned is like this the science behind it's pretty amazing that like when we laugh together, when I can make a client laugh, their brains flooded with endorphins and oxytocin and dopamine, which are all the drugs we take that are antidepressants. And so this client came in covered in cortisol and stress because of, you know, worried about their animal, worried about money. And if I can replace some of those hormones with some laughing hormones, now I've got somebody who's back in their forebrain thinking and ready to communicate with. And so the laughter is like the little key that opens up their brain. Now I can say, all right, this is really serious. What yeah, I can stop and be like, okay, I'm worried about this. But you know, this is not what this usually presents like. we have A, B, and C options, you know, and the downside is cost invasiveness, whatever. And then we can have that serious conversation and and they're in a better place. Because when they come in, you can just see it on their face. You know, they're just beyond stressed, and there's nobody, you know, the way I think of it is there's nobody home to talk to in there. Um, you know, it's like they're just too stressed to even take it in. So it's like, let's see if we can't just lighten things up and have a good time, have an easier time working on the horse, and then have a healthier conversation. So humor is vital in my practice. I know that, you know, I think the whole world's funny, you know, and that's why I do stand-up. It's like the everything is amusing to me. but and not everybody does, but we can all practice that, you know, we can all build that into our, you know, so it's it works both ways. I have some clients that are really funny, and everybody loves to see them because they come in and they make the veterinarian laugh, and then now the veterinarian can take a step back from, you know, with their practice owner of the stress of not, you know, like, oh my gosh, American Express says if we don't pay today that they're gonna cut us off tomorrow, uh, which is an actual phone call I got on Christmas Eve one time. Thank you, American Express. Shout out to that was a good day to hear that. so small business ownership, yay. Or if it's that you just walked out of a hard case, a case it didn't go your way, or a client who just yelled at you. If you as a client can bring that into the room and bring some humor and everybody can laugh, guess what you get? A veterinarian whose brain's back working again. It works both ways, you know, and we can all practice that. We don't all have to be comics, but we we can all think of, you know, you see a funny meme on the internet, you could show your vet. You would not believe what I saw today, you know, and then you show them on your phone and you have a giggle and then you can get on with it. So Yeah.


Amy Castro, Host (17:14)
Mine's usually a you would not believe what came out of my dog's butt yesterday and got a picture of Yeah.


Matt Evans, DVM (17:20)
We like poop pictures. Y'all can send it, bring it on, yeah.


Amy Castro, Host (17:23) Well, you know, yeah, and you you mentioned that the fact that we don't all have to be comedians, but I think empathy on both sides, like you mentioned, is really important. So what else would you want people to know to be a little bit more empathetic and understanding about trying to be a veterinarian in today's world?


Matt Evans, DVM (17:40)
Yeah, all the things we've talked about, you know, the fact that the medical decisions we're making are really difficult. so we're working really hard to solve a complex problem on an organic creature. I sometimes joke that as a equine veterinarian, I'm a luxury yacht mechanic is how people treat us, you know, make it run, make it run faster. And we are, but we're working on a living yacht that changes all the time and that we understand incompletely.


Amy Castro, Host (18:03)
And can't talk and tell you what's going on. That's the coming toughest part.


Matt Evans, DVM (18:08)
Absolutely. And so we have all those things to deal with, and then also now we're having to communicate with client too. So we're doing human communication. And like you mentioned earlier, uh, there is a percentage of veterinarians who get into it under the misguided auspices that they're not gonna that they will get to talk deal with animals, that they're like, I don't like people, I want to be around animals, uh, which unless you're doing lab animal medicine or something like that or research is not the case. We are a people first industry, you know, we're dealing with humans. Horses don't write checks or make their own appointments. and so all of that adds into um, yeah, if you can just have a little empathy for that, a real human, not here working on your horse, but picture me getting home tonight and talking about how my day was with my wife and children, you know, trying to sleep through the night when I'm on call and then having to get up and put on the doctor hat again and go to work. And so if you can realize that there's a real person behind that, you know, like you said, the white coat syndrome, I think that that plays a r plays a role. the other thing I was thinking of that people could ask, like I don't think any veterinarian is ashamed to talk about the finances, and I think so we get we get real pulled back. We we say it needs this procedure and it's gonna cost X, and then everybody shuts down. That would be a fine place to start communicating and say, why is it X and what can we do? Is there any other option? Because I'm happy to describe like, okay, this medication costs this much, it takes this much of my time, it's gonna take this much staff, we're do we're using this room for this long. All that rolls into it. So that's that's why we priced it that we didn't just make that number up. And here's how we could change it, and I don't recommend changing it for that, you know, like we could do this procedure for this amount, or you know, but this I've seen that done and it's not gonna work. You know, that those are healthy conversations to have instead of I say this procedure cost X and you just shut down and think, of course he just wants some money, you know. Like no.



Amy Castro, Host (20:00)
Or I think sometimes, you know, one of the things that we've tried to stress on this show is being prepared before you go into an appointment and what questions could potentially come up and how do you ask those questions? There's a big difference between just being honest and saying, hey, that's a lot of money. It's not necessarily something I have in my budget right now. Can you explain a little bit more about where that cost comes from or something like that versus what? Are you crazy? You think I made a money and like getting all irate about it and just you know, having that conversation like you would have in any other business situations about the cost of something. You're just trying to get some information so you can make a thoughtful decision. So it's I think most vets are pretty open to that.


Matt Evans, DVM (20:40)
Yeah, absolutely. I love a prepared client. That's great advice y'all give. Like my eyes light up when a client brings out a


Matt Evans, DVM (20:46)
notebook, it makes me happy. Or they open up their phone and they're like, I want to make sure I ask you everything that I had earlier. It's like, absolutely, let's do this. it shows they've been thinking about it. Um, and those are gonna be good, well thought-out questions that they wrote down, you know, in a moment of less stress, you know. And so we're about to have a great conversation.


Amy Castro, Host (21:05)
Well, and you and when you see that, you know, um, you know, one of the things that makes me think about is that that person feels comfortable enough with you to be like, hey, I'm not just gonna keep my mouth shut and and walk out of here. I'm gonna take my appointment time and make sure that we're both on the same page.


Matt Evans, DVM (21:22)
Probably when I see that even more than the fact that we're gonna have this good conversation, it's like, oh, I know we're gonna have a healthy relationship. and so yeah, if you can give off those clues to your veterinarian that you're like, listen, we can have this conversation, we can work through this problem. I'm here to solve this problem with you. That's why I'm gonna pay you, is because we're gonna work together to solve this problem. That's really good. Whereas somebody screaming at me, it's like I'm gonna have a really hard time dialing this back to the point where we get to an intelligent conversation about treatment planning and outcomes. And so Yeah.


Amy Castro, Host (21:53)
Yeah.


Matt Evans, DVM (21:53)
Yeah.


Amy Castro, Host (21:54)
Well, and at the same time, I think that's also a sign that, you know, everybody brings something to the table and could just be somebody that this is Just the the tipping point for them too. And so not that that excuses it, but you know, sometimes people do have bad days, but that's that's something that we have to kind of rein in and ourselves before we walk in the door.


Matt Evans, DVM (22:14)
Right. Well, and it's up to the veterinarian too. I feel like I'm being too hard on the clients. You know, when I was a very young vet, I had a client tell me, You always seem like you're in a hurry and you just want to get out of here and get on to the next thing. And that hit really hard because it's like, well, that's 100% how I am. So I know I g I've got to figure out how to not let that be the case. It's not her problem that I have ten more things to do today. So that that really hits so the veterinarian needs to work on how they show that too. So, you know, having that ability to stop, you know, like stop typing your notes to actually have a conversation, you know, those kind of things. Yeah, we we have to keep medical records. That's that's law. But if you do try to multitask while you're with a client or, you know, you're just trying to rush through it. They pick up on that. That was really hurtful for me to hear, but what what a gift she gave me as a young


Matt Evans, DVM (23:00)
veterinarian to hear that. So I I would encourage that from clients too, you know, if you have feedback and you can give it in a constructive way to a veterinarian, yes. Um, because if you're seeing that, probably all their clients are seeing that. And so not only is their business suffering, but they're just making everybody's day crappier too. So if you see something and you can say something constructive, please do. Yeah, we're humans, we're trying to grow.


Amy Castro, Host (23:24)
You know, not everybody's not everybody's fast at thinking on their feet, because you know, people will say, Oh, I know what I should have said. Like it's easy to say after the fact, well then do a follow-up. Send an email and say, hey, when I was in there today, I wasn't really thinking it all the way through, but now that I've had some time to think about it, here's something that I wanted you to know. And you know, that way you can put your thoughts together a little bit better.


Matt Evans, DVM (23:43)
I've had follow-up criticism like that and I've had follow-up apologies too. Like, I'm sorry when I was there, I was very stressed, and now I hear what you were saying and I would like to talk about it again. And all those things are always welcome. Yeah, you know, communication's always welcome. Yeah.


Amy Castro, Host (23:56)
Yes. That's what keeps me in business. This is a topic that I've wanted to do before, and I I feel like I didn't do it because I was afraid that there's gonna be this oh, woe is me kind of viewpoint on it. But your point about it being a business, you may not like the fact that it's a business because it's your pet and that's the way you see it. But there's probably no other business that you go into as a consumer and say, Can you just give me that for free? Or can I have that for half off?


Matt Evans, DVM (24:27)
Right.


Amy Castro, Host (24:27)
You know, and I can't imagine that too many people go in when they take their child to the pediatrician and try to negotiate the the costs, or I don't want to pay for that, or you're crazy for charging that. I think that's where the empathy is really important. It's like a, you know, it's a it's an incredible juggling act that veterinarians are trying to do.


Matt Evans, DVM (24:48)
Right. And we do it, we do that juggling act because we love animals and we chose this above all things, and we're still very happy we did. But yeah, it puts us in a spot. So if if people could understand that and communicate from that standpoint, we could all make better decisions, I think. Yeah.


Amy Castro, Host (25:01)
You know, and another thing, and we may if you if you're if you can talk to this point, is that you know, the decline in people going to vet school, the shortage of veterinarians, the shortage of veterinary staff, the high turnover. There's probably a reason people don't want to go into vetmed beyond the debt that you incur from your schooling. What do you what are your thoughts on on that perspective? It's like, you know, we're we're being so hard on our vets, we're driving people to not want to be them anymore, even though they do love animals and want to help them. And I know it's bigger than that, but Right.


Matt Evans, DVM (25:34)
Yeah, I do think, especially it with online where people can get on and and say that this vet's too expensive and they're just out for money or whatever. Um, that that probably will dissuade future people from wanting to be veterinarians because they see that negativity constantly come up. So I think we're always struggling to have enough veterinarians to do the job, which um, you know, from a business standpoint sounds like it'd be good, supply and demand, but um, but it's not. We need we need more quality veterinarians around. And then also the support staff is really hard. There's a lot of turnover with that. A lot of it is because we can't pay them enough for the skills and the stress and the hours they work. A veterinary technician or a veterinary nurse is an extremely skilled job and they don't get paid like human nurses. And if we did pay them that much, the cost of the animal care would be through the roof. And so there's constantly turnover. I'm sure people are gonna listen and think, well, the veterinarian could make less money and pay the support staff more, and that is a choice that we always are making to do that, to pay our support staff more, and then that means veterinarians bring less money home, and then all of a sudden now we're back in that loop. We have the same high cost of education, the same stresses, all the pressures, and even less income, and and then less people want to become veterinarians. And it it sounds like a really dark place, but I think you know, we'll always have veterinarians around because it's such a wonderful job. It is a dream job for so many people to get to be a doctor for animals, and it's so rewarding. Um, but if we could be more on the same page about why veterinarians did that and what their stresses are, and then the veterinarian can understand the animal parent stress, then we can do a much better job communicating than we do a lot of the time.


Amy Castro, Host (27:08)
Yeah. And I think that goes back to the whole point of this episode is that we're all human beings, we all have families, loved ones that we have to care for. We need to make money in order to survive, not only in our businesses, but in our in our personal lives. And if we could kind of put that on the table as a these are our commonalities and work together to try to help both sides, you know, achieve what they're trying to achieve, which is quality care for the animal in a way that the pet parent can afford and the vet can still stay in business, then we'd all be in a better place for sure.


Matt Evans, DVM (27:42)
Absolutely. Yeah, that's the goal.


Amy Castro, Host (27:45)
Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about your stand-up comedy and about your book, because it sounds like something I'm looking forward to reading.


Matt Evans, DVM (27:54)
Yeah, great. Um, yeah, I started doing stand-up in about 2017 in the Austin area. and so it's been an outlet for the fact that I think everything's funny and just I've really enjoyed it. Stand up, if people don't know, you think you're just up there just saying whatever funny thing's on your mind, but it's all written. And so stand up is writing, and I realized in doing that that I loved writing and I wanted to write more essays. And my hero is James Harriet. And if if you're Yeah, if anybody hadn't read James Harriet, please stop what you're doing and read that. And if you and if you're not a reader, you can watch All Creatures Great and Small. And so that was my motivation. I started just writing veterinary stories, but then as I kind of put them together, I


Matt Evans, DVM (28:32)
realized I had a story that may be worth telling, which is that I wasn't raised around horses and I wanted to become a horse vet, and that made for an uphill battle, a fish out of water story. And so my book is James Harriet with more humor mixed in. But it's not just story after story about case, it it's about my journey to become a horse veterinarian and the things I had to overcome. And so it'd be a fun book to read if you ever wondered what it was like to become a horse veterinarian. But anybody starting in the industry or anybody who's ever been new at something and gone through imposter syndrome, it'll resonate with my story of just being in over your head and having to battle your way out and then the the humor that can come out of that. All those painful situations that we get ourselves into.


Amy Castro, Host (29:13)
I know the book doesn't come out for a little while, but I know that people can pre-order it. Where can they get it?


Matt Evans, DVM (29:19)
Yeah, Chomping at the Bit, and it's at Amazon. Um, and you can just search that out. There's a couple other chompings in there, or you could search my name, there's one other Matt Evans. So if you put them together, Chomping at the Bit, Matt Evans, you'll get it. Or you can go to my website, Matt Evans Comic, and then I'll have links to all the booksellers there too. It doesn't come out till September, so order two, and you you'll probably make a friend by September, you know. I would think so.


Amy Castro, Host (29:41)
Maybe depends. Depends on your personality, but yeah. But no, but we'll we'll go ahead and put some links to it in the show notes as well. So people can people can make it easy on them to find it. And yeah, because I was a horse girl and I wanted to be a horse vet. Unfortunately, I couldn't pass high school chemistry, so therefore that kind of killed my dream. It killed my dream. But so I decided to run a rescue and make no money at all and deal with horses and animals. But but yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to reading it. so Matt, thank you so much for being here with us today and talking about this subject. Like I said, I it's something that I've been wanting to share with people because I do have the benefit of seeing the other side of the life of a veterinarian, even just in a small, in a small dose. So I appreciate you giving people an insight into what it's like to live in your world.


Matt Evans, DVM (30:34)
Yeah, absolutely. My pleasure. So good to talk to you and and hopefully we've helped people have healthier conversations.


Amy Castro, Host (30:40)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think build building those good relationships with your vet and your staff can do nothing but improve the outcomes for your pets, in my opinion. So even if you just do it from that perspective, put in that effort to help your own pets. We we put in so much effort as pet parents to do the right thing. This is one more thing that we can do to help our pets for sure.


Matt Evans, DVM (31:00)
100%.


Amy Castro, Host (31:02)
Before we wrap up, I want to leave you with this. The next time you're sitting across from your veterinarian and you feel nervous or embarrassed or frustrated or afraid to ask a question, remember there's a human being on the other side of that conversation too. That doesn't mean you shouldn't advocate for your pet. You absolutely should. But advocacy works way better when it starts from the assumption that everyone in the room wants the same thing, the best possible care for the animal


Amy Castro, Host (31:28)
in front of them. So before your next appointment, write down the three things your vet most needs to know and three questions you most need answered, and bring that list with you. Say it out loud if money is a concern. Say it out loud if you don't understand your options, and say it out loud if you're feeling overwhelmed. That kind of honesty gives your vet something to work with, and it can turn a stressful appointment into a much better conversation. Thanks for listening to the Pet Parent Hotline. If you enjoyed the show, don't keep it to yourself. Text a friend right now with a link and tell them I've got a show that you need to hear. And ask them to let you know what they think. And remember, your pet's best life starts with you living yours. So be sure to take good care of yourself this week and your pets.