Should You Go to the Emergency Vet or Wait?

Episode Title: Should You Go to the Emergency Vet or Wait?
Host: Amy Castro
Guest: Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM, Valley Cottage Animal Hospital

Episode Summary:
How do you know whether your pet needs emergency care right now, or whether it’s safe to wait until morning? In this episode, Amy Castro talks with veterinarian Dr. Linda Atkins about one of the toughest judgment calls pet parents face. They discuss why people hesitate, how symptoms can progress faster than expected, what situations tend to become dangerous quickly, and how to think through the decision without relying on panic, social media, or guesswork.

Links Mentioned:
Valley Cottage Animal Hospital

Recommended Resources:
ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center

Veterinary Disclaimer:
This podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional veterinary advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If your pet is experiencing a medical emergency, contact your veterinarian or an emergency veterinary hospital immediately.


Transcript:

Amy Castro: 00:00
It's late, something's off with your pet, and you're stuck in that moment trying to decide, do I go to the emergency vet or can it wait? Because nobody wants to overreact and spend a ton of money and be told it's nothing. But waiting too long can turn something manageable into something serious fast. Today we're talking about how to make the call without second guessing yourself or regretting it later. You've reached the Pet Parent Hotline, your lifeline to practical solutions for your toughest pet parenting challenges. I'm your host, Amy Castro, and I'm here to help you cut through the noise and turn expert advice into step-by-step strategies so you can stop chasing your tail and start enjoying life with pets again. She has more than 30 years of experience in veterinary medicine and brings a very practical, real-world perspective to this conversation. Because she's seen what happens when pets come in early when something just feels off, and she's also seen what can happen when people wait too long. That kind of experience makes this a really important conversation because this isn't just theoretical. This is what pet parents are dealing with every single day. Dr. Atkins, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 01:27
I always enjoy these episodes.

Amy Castro: 01:30
Yes, and you are very popular, I will tell you. People like your episodes as well. And and I, especially on this episode, didn't want to leave this to chance and didn't want to leave this to just Amy Castro's opinion because I this concept of do I take my pet to the emergency vet or can it wait? It's so specific and so individual that I didn't want to be projecting necessarily just my opinion out there and then having people make bad choices as a result. So one of the first things I wanted to chat about was why do you think it is that the decision is so difficult for people to make?

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 02:08
I think because people are pet parents now and not just owners anymore, and they're parts of the family, and that makes it even a more difficult decision to make that decision for them. Do I go to the ER? They have the same trouble with their own family members besides their pet family members, and they don't want to make the wrong decision. I think that's what makes them so worried about it. They have this nonverbal child, basically. They love them and they want to make the right decision, so that makes it real difficult when to go.

Amy Castro: 02:39
Yeah, that definitely is dicey. And you know, the I think what I hear from people too is this struggle of, you know, I know that in general it's gonna cost me significantly more to go to an emergency vet or an urgent vet than if I wait till tomorrow or wait till Monday to go to my regular vet. Do you hear that from people as well?

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 03:02
They always the always question is why why do they wait? Why don't they want to come in? A little bit of it's financial. You know, the ones that don't have any financial concerns will pretty much always come in because they just have to they take that right off the table. Um but a lot of people wait because they're emotionally afraid to come in, especially with older pets. I see that. You've got this older dog and they don't want to go in because they think, oh my God, is this gonna be the time I have to make a decision? So they they wait because they're a they're a little bit afraid of what someone is gonna tell them. Um it's also really difficult sometimes to bring your cat in. You got to put that cat in the carrier, you gotta put it in the car, you've got to listen to scream for a half an hour sometimes, and that they feel like, oh my God, my cat is sick already, and now I'm gonna do this to them. Same for those waiting on those difficult dogs, uh, the dog that needs sedation to come in, and now it's an emergency, and I have to go to this other place, and I don't know those people, and my dog doesn't know those people. So that emotional feeling of even deciding to get into the car can be very difficult.

Amy Castro: 04:12
Yeah, I hadn't even thought about that piece. I mean, the cat piece I had thought about, but the senior pet piece, I hadn't really thought about that aspect of just not wanting to know. Like I don't want to know it's their time or whatever the whatever the case may be. I guess when I think about emergency vet, I'm always thinking accidents or injury or somebody ate poison or something like that.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 04:32
Those are the really easy, obvious ones that we'll talk about later. Those are the things that people always know, oh yeah, I've got to go to the ER. But sometimes it's Sunday, because I work a lot of Sunday ER, and it's Sunday, and they're just sitting with the dog and they're like, This isn't right, this isn't right, and they don't want to make that decision with somebody they don't know too. So they wait because they want to see their regular vet.

Amy Castro: 04:59
Right. Well, you're in kind of a unique situation working as an emergency vet and as a regular vet. Can you explain how that works at your practice? Because it's not the norm for most people. For most people, it's I have my regular vet, and then I have this emergency vet, which is a completely different entity with all these different vets, and and that factor plays into it.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 05:18
Yeah, our practice is a little different because we are there kind of eight to eight, Monday through Sunday for any kind of visit, whether or wellness or an emergency. But after eight o'clock, we do refer to the local emergency hospital. But we still have nurses on staff overnight, and we also have receptionists to answer the phone. So if you did have to go to the ER, the ER can call us and say, can we get the records? And that's very helpful because then they have all of our information and helps our clients feel like they have a little bit of peace of mind by doing that. They can call everything that we know now the emergency hospital knows. But also on Sunday we're open eight to eight. So that's kind of an emergency day. They don't have to go to the local ER, they can come right to us and they will see someone that maybe they've met before, like myself.

Amy Castro: 06:09
Yeah. Well, and that's that's interesting too, because I feel like anytime I've been in this conundrum of trying to make this decision, it's always on Sunday. Holidays. Yeah, and holidays, exactly.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 06:22
So nighttime, not as much. You know, the nighttime I find seems to be those true, oh my God, this is an emergency type situation, and they're a little more clear-cut. Yeah. But but if you work a job where you work nights and you're seeing the dog at a different time of day, potentially it could be in the middle of the night.

Amy Castro: 06:41
Yeah, that's true. Because for your average person who doesn't work nights, you're sleeping, so it would have to be a relatively unusual situation that your pet is in a position that you actually are woken up or stay up and are worried about it. I think that also makes a good point, too, that it's very important that you know what are your vet's hours? Do they have after hours? Whether it's in-person after hours or they'll take phone calls after hours. I mean, those are things that can really help you because that's the person that can help you best make a decision as to what your next steps are.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 07:14
Yeah. A lot of our clients don't even realize we're there. We have someone answering the phone at night, all night, that has access to their records. And sometimes they just need just a little bit of advice. You know, we don't like to give out too much advice without seeing the pet. So you have to be very cautious that way because you don't want to make the wrong decision about something. Somebody's describing, but it's not actually, it's more serious than that. Um sometimes they just want to know is it okay for me to wait a little bit? Can I come in in the morning? Can I come in at 8 a.m.? And they call it at 10 p.m. So they know, okay, it's only a couple of hours. I I can wait. I feel more comfortable with this. But also knowing, like you said, the veterinarian's hours, like are they closed on Wednesday? And now it's Tuesday night, and your pet is very sick, they're not your regular vet's not going to be open on Wednesday, because you know that, because everybody's, you know, hours are different. Right. The way ours is set up and some places are doing this now. We have our wellness doctors that are fully booked for appointments. But then somebody like we'll have at least six, seven calls a day. My dog has an ear infection, my dog is vomiting, and my cat has diarrhea, that it can't wait to the next day, and you never know where to put those people. So now we have a dedicated urgent care doctor that's on every single day to handle all of that. So it doesn't interrupt seeing my wellness patients, where you know they're here, they're seniors, they just need a checkup, they're a puppy, because it would totally mess up our schedule with this sick cat in the middle of everything, and then everybody's waiting. So now we have an urgent care doctor all day.

Amy Castro: 08:52
Yeah, and that's that's a good question to ask too, how that works, because I know that um my veterinarian has, they call it drop-offs, and so you know that you may actually stay sometimes with the drop-off, but it's it's kind of the same thing. It's you're not on the schedule, the schedule is full, but we do have this dedicated veterinarian that's taking the people that need to come in.

Speaker 1: 09:12
Yes.

Amy Castro: 09:12
Um, so that's you know, again, these are all things, great, great things to know about your veterinarian. Um, so when people hesitate, because I'm a h I I'm I will be the first one to admit that I'm a hesitator. I'm gonna try to hedge my bets, I'm gonna try to and maybe it's just coming from a rescue background. It's like we can't just willy-nilly spend rescue funds assuming something's an emergency and then finding out it's not, and we just spent a significant amount of money on it. But what do you think are the biggest risks when people hesitate when something is wrong? I mean, obviously, if you make a really bad choice, your pet could die. I mean, that's a pretty big risk.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 09:50
Certain conditions are definitely more risky to wait on. You know, just a couple of big examples, something that has like for a human example, you have abdominal pain. Do you go to the ER? Do you not go to the ER? Well, you could just have eaten something that didn't agree with you, or you could have acute appendicitis. So if you have abdominal pain and you wait, your appendix could rupture and now you're septic, and now you're in the hospital for a long time and you're risk of dying. Same can happen with like dogs. They they ate something and it's gonna move through and they've got abdominal pain, but possibly it's stuck, it could rupture, and now you've waited and now they're septic. So the same situation. Yeah, you know, always those blocked cats, the cat that's in and out of the litter box. It's a little risky to wait because then, okay, now my cat is obstructed and it goes into kidney failure versus the risk involved. And if it's just a cat that has a little bit of inflammation and it's had this before. And that's one of the things I always stress. You have to know your cat or dog's normal. You like you know your pet's normal. And I think that's why you hedge a little bit, because you look at them and say, no, that's not really too bad. Whereas some people they don't know what's normal for the pet. So they think that it's okay when it's when it's really not.

Amy Castro: 11:14
Right. And the other aspect that's a kind of an offshoot of that too is if you're not, and I just did an episode the other day on you know things to improve your pet's life. And one of them was just the simple observation, because I know for me, I'm busy, I've got lots of animals, and so I sometimes lose track of has so-and-so slowing down? Does so-and-so have sort of a limp? Did so-and-so really finish all their dinner? Did somebody else get it? You know, and if you're if you're not tuned into those things, there may be something brewing, like the litter box is a perfect example. You know, I mean, a lot of times the vet will ask me, well, you know, have they been using the litter box? I don't know. I got four people going. I haven't actually seen them go in or out, but there's an awful lot of stuff in it when I scoop it. I mean, it can be tricky sometimes to know what they're doing, but but that's a really good example. If the cat's disappearing around the corner and you're catching them in the litter box multiple times, it's especially in the same day, it's probably not normal and something to be concerned about. And that

Amy Castro: 12:13
uh is also such a good point for people to really hone in on is the the progression of things. It's like on one hand, you say to yourself, well, if they've got a blockage, they've got a blockage and it'll be a blockage tomorrow kind of thing. But what are what are the things that spin off from that? Now there's two things that need to be treated that could be deadly deadly, or three. And so that progression of time is um you know, can increase the danger for sure.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 12:39
It can be it can be so unclear too sometimes. You just you just don't know. And that just taking a step back and observing what's going on can make the situation clearer. Okay, let me think back. What did they eat? What did they get into? You know, how often did they use the litter box where you said that? So it it helps to clarify that. But you have to really you have to be observing the pet to know, okay, it's normal for him to go out three times in the morning, but now he's going out ten times in the morning. So maybe something is wrong.

Amy Castro: 13:13
Yeah.

unknown: 13:14
Yeah.

Amy Castro: 13:14
And that is another thing that people struggle with is this idea of the urgency of it. Because I've had people, I mean, I've I've looked out on online, you know, Reddit is a classic place to check these things out. People like, my cat's scratching their ear a lot. Should I take them to the urgent care? And my I might and I don't, I'm not answering these questions, by the way, but in my mind I'm thinking, no, you shouldn't be taking taking your cat to the urgent care for that and paying extra for it. You know, it's but there are other things that are a lot more a lot more subtle, like the litter box usage and things. Other can you think of other examples where it might be hard to distinguish, but could make a huge difference?

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 13:55
Um I sometimes I tell people, like if they're concerned, take a photo of what you're seeing or a video of what you're seeing. Take a picture of what they threw up and and even call the regular vet and say, Hey, can I send you this picture? This is what it threw up, or had diarrhea, or is in and out of the litter box. Take a video. Because some things like neurologic problems and breathing problems can be very subtle for clients to pick up on. I've had so many videos sent to me where they send a video, the receptionist says, Can you come look at this video? So-and-so just sent it to me of the cat. And I look at it, I'm like, oh, that cat probably just has an upper respiratory infection. You know, it's stuffy, it's sneezing, it's breathing hard. But then other times I look at the video, I'm like, oh no, that cat has heart disease. It's got fluid in its lungs. And as a veterinarian, sometimes just seeing the pet and looking at it, you say, that animal needs to come in. And most clients, that's hard to pick up on. Um we're very open to doing those videos. Or you take a video in the morning and then you do one four hours later, it's getting close to closing time for the vet. And now something has really changed. So then, okay, yes, I need to go in.

Amy Castro: 15:08
Yeah. Yeah, that's I I find that with people with diarrhea too. I I have more pictures of poop on my phone than probably anybody I know, except you. But um, because even my volunteers, fosters, it's like they'll text me and say, This animal's got really bad diarrhea. And I was like, well, send me a picture of it. And it's like, that ain't really bad. But it's like, you know, what even just people's perception of what is diarrhea and what is soft poop versus what is normal for the pet.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 15:39
Diarrhea is something I definitely see on Sundays, though, because if they're having diarrhea all day Sunday, this client is thinking, oh my God, tomorrow is Monday. I work from eight to five. What's going to happen to my apartment tomorrow from eight to five? So diarrhea can definitely be an emergency because you're trying to fix the problem before the next day. And that can really factor into whether people bring them in or not, because you have to know what's going on in your life the next day or that night. Can you bring them in for that diarrhea?

Amy Castro: 16:13
Yeah, that's a really good point because it we get hung up on the word emergency. Like I go to the emergency vet, it better be life and death. And how do I make that decision? And for some people, not everybody, some people judge it differently, but but that goes to a bigger question, which is what is your lifestyle and how does that play in? Because that's such a good point that I hadn't thought about. It's less about the fact that it's life and death at that point, and more about the fact that I'm not going to be here to deal with it on Monday. So for me, because I work from home, it doesn't, you know, I can wait, and whereas somebody else might not be able to. Um, if people are unsure without giving a checklist, because I don't want to try to prescribe for every single person just like you wouldn't do it over the phone without knowing anything about the pet, but are there some questions that people should be asking themselves to make that decision? Like the idea of if I don't do it today, can I do it Monday? And how will things progress? But anything else?

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 17:12
I think, you know, are the symptoms changing or worsening is a big one. And that goes for whether it's respiratory or GI or skin, anything that's rapidly worsening. Like you said, about an ear. An ear, you know, most of the time you can wait the next day. But if the ear at 8 a.m. is just a little red and by noon the dog is ripping it with its back nails, shredding the ear, then okay, well, maybe this is more of an emergency to come in. So it's really a progression, the dog that vomits once in the morning versus the dog that now has vomited 10 times by two o'clock. So progression of signs is something that always makes things clearer. And if you don't know, you know, just call. Call the vet. Either they have an answering service on or you call the the ER place or the urgent care and just say, okay, this is what they're doing now. What are your hours for today? How busy is it? Because you could

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 18:09
you could easily sit four hours at the ER around here at night. So you're gonna sit. Uh, can I do that? Do I have a ch child care issue? So you see something wrong, okay. Now what am I gonna do? What's the rest of my day look like? Uh, can I go to the vet tonight? Do I want to go to the ER? Do I need help? My dog is a hundred pounds and I'm 80 years old, and everybody's away and nobody can bring me. So all those things factor in to help you make that decision to go.

Amy Castro: 18:40
Yeah. And one of the things that people sometimes don't realize, too, and I and I do this for humans as and I do this for pets. I live in the Houston area, and there's more than one emergency room I could go to as a person, and there's more than one emergency vet I could take my pet to. Obviously, if my pet it gets hit by a car, I'm gonna run to the closest one because I know they're gonna triage based on the animal's condition. But if it's something where I feel like I have the time to call and find out what that wait time is, because that can have a huge impact on how the rest of the time goes. So that's a good piece of advice is to call and check. One of the key points that everybody that's listening needs to understand is that in the end, as the pet parent, we're the ones that need to make the decision. And and I say this to people all the time you've got to make the decision that you can live with and accept the level of risk that you can live with. But from your perspective, when you've had people that had that have waited, um what do you think is the, you know, what are the things that people most regret waiting on?

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 19:48
I think it's the things that can be fixed easily if you catch them early, or the ones that are I know are gonna progress just by looking at them. For example, the one of the most common ones we get on sat on Sundays is it starts with the receptionist calling to treatment saying, I have an 80-pound dog, and I know the next thing is gonna be the ate. So I have an 80-pound dog that ate and it's dot dot dot. So they call because our clients are conditioned to do that. We tell them just call us, it ate something, call us. Because some of those things we can just induce vomiting, problem solved, or they have to come right in, just triaging in that way. Because if you wait on something they ate, like grapes, my dog ate a pound of raisins. Now that you can just induce vomiting for, get them all out. But if you wait, that dog could go into kidney failure. So my cat ate the Easter lily leaf. You know, they think, oh, it chewed on the Easter lily leaf. Now, if they don't call and they don't induce vomiting, that cat's probably gonna die of kidney disease. And a lot of people don't know that they'll go into acute kidney failure. So that would be a big regret. So call the poison control center. There's a bunch of them, you'll pay a small fee, a lot less than going to the ER, and they'll tell you what to do. Um, and then, you know, inducing vomiting at home is pretty easy to do with most dogs. And being prepared, having that peroxide fresh, because otherwise you're running out to the CVS to get the fresh peroxide. My dog eats stuff, I've got peroxide in the house because it's like I have an industrial bottle.

Amy Castro: 21:22
Well, I don't, I don't have it anymore, but when I had my Doberman, I had a giant bottle underneath my kitchen sink because every single time he went out, because he would find something to eat in the yard. One of the his favorite things that he liked to eat was queen palm fruit, which is really a it's it's about the size of a grape. It's a giant seed. There's very little fruit on it, but the fruit has it's not caffeine, but it's like an equivalent of caffeine, so it causes issues with that. But that secondary thing is if you don't get them out, now all those little seeds are working their way down into his intestines and causing issues. So that's a good illustration. Of get it out soon and you have a lot less issues versus letting it progress and hoping he's gonna poop out the 12 or 20 that he ate.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 22:10
And it's those ones that they just the things that don't stop. I think I told that before, but they don't stop vomiting, they don't stop having diarrhea, they're still itching, they're still bleeding, they're still straining. Um because it's not the one time, it's the it's still going on that that makes it more of a hey, you need to get somewhere and have that checked sooner than later. And you know, I tell people if the dog is vomiting, if it smells bad when they vomit, it is bad and you should have it checked. Because I always ask them that, what it what did it smell like? And they're like, Smells like vomit. I'm like, oh no, you'll know if it's if it's bad. Um, but yeah, it's a it's always progression. You know, they're peeing once in the house, but now they've peed 10 times in the house during the course of the day. So it's any any illness or problem, it's how how much has it progressed? Yeah.

Amy Castro: 23:06
I tell you, the best smelling puke that I ever smelled was when my Minpin ate an eight by eight square of brownies that my daughter neglected to tell me someone brought her to school for her birthday. I don't know, but I did I need to induce vomiting? Because I did. I gave her peroxide and she puked it off. Yeah.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 23:24
Now the brownies around here are more of a problem because they're not just brownies sometimes. Oh yeah.

Amy Castro: 23:29
Well, no, these are just these are like fourth grader brownies, but still I was concerned concerned about how much chocolate might be in there, and it just seemed easier to give her the peroxide and get it out.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 23:39
But uh and don't don't wait on eyeballs. That's one thing. Never want to regret because eyes change rapidly and you don't want to lose sight because you could have a red, swollen eye that still has sight, and eight hours later it's got glaucoma and it they can't see anymore. So definitely things with eyes, send a picture, call, have it checked. They're usually pretty simple problems, they're not big expense, but you can you can definitely fix things a little quicker the sooner you see them. Yeah. Um, and it won't, you know, be as much in the long run. Um, and clearly things that are births, you don't we don't see as much with you know births going wrong, but you know, puppies, kittens, things getting stuck, those the earlier you act on those, the better chance you're having of like a healthy litter as opposed to an emergency C-section.

Amy Castro: 24:28
Yeah, that's a good that that's a good one too, because we had that happen one time, and it wasn't even these people's dog. They found this dog wandering in their apartment complex parking lot, and she had a puppy's head sticking out of her. And so they brought it in and they were like trying to help and they observed, and the problem is they observed for like two hours before they started calling around for help, and they couldn't afford to go to any kind of vet. So as a rescue, we picked the dog up and took it to the, you know, took it to our vet who met us met us at the vet's office. And unfortunately, that puppy had passed, as did the other puppies that were stuck behind it. But the dog lived and was happily adopted. So that was a good outcome for her. But it could have been really, really bad at that point. Um, and I don't know, I I know I said that we didn't weren't gonna get too far into um specific instances, but one thing that did pop into my head was stings and bites, like not bites from other dogs per se, but snake bites. Although, you know, I think anybody that yeah, a poisonous snake, people are gonna take their pet to the emergency vet. Nobody's gonna wait on that. But what about like bee stings, things like that?

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 25:35
Yeah, bee stings are it's level of concern because some people, if they get stung by a bee and their hand swells up, they're going to the ER or the urgent care themselves. So they're gonna bring their pet in because they just feel more comfortable with that. Most bee stings are generally self-limiting, like for us. And and if you again, if you don't know about something, you think, well, would I go to the ER for this? Would I go to the urgent care? Um, because you can go to the urgent care and get treated for the bee sting, it it moves things along a little faster. But if they've been stung before, and again, knowing your dog's normal, like if my dog has definitely gotten stung multiple times, she puffs up, she's sad, I give her Benadryl, within a couple hours she's better. But if I didn't know that that was her normal, and now I have a new dog and it got into a nest of yellow jackets, and now it's got 10 stings. Well, then I might go to the ER because is it gonna have an anaphylactic reaction? So yes, bee stings most of the time are okay if they're localized in one sting, but you have you have to know a little bit about your pet to see. Yeah. Usually it's the number of stings. Like I've only seen one anaphylactic pet from a sting from multiple, it was multiple stings. It was yellow jackets and it was a boxer, and it they were still on it, the little stingers, you could see them, and that pet collapsed in the emergency room from the anaphylactic reaction. But it it's very uncommon. The snakes, though, are snakes are always bad. Yeah.

Amy Castro: 27:06
So definitely get them in for that. Um, so if somebody's on the fence in making this decision, you may have already answered part of this, but what would you want them to do first? Like how how can they go through the decision-making process in quick succession to make a decision they can live with?

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 27:25
Yeah. Some sometimes just for me, it helps to write it down. And writing it down will help if you do end up in the ER. Okay, at nine o'clock in the morning, we had one bout of bloody diarrhea. And then you take a picture. I know it's gross, but it helps. Because then later in the day, if the dog is better, you say, Oh, it got better. I'm gonna go to my vet tomorrow, or just call them. Maybe I'll do a workup then. But if you had documented that and then later in the day it's now worse, you kind of say you because you lose track of stuff. You're our lives are busy, we're busy doing something else. Somebody calls and we have to go here with this child, and and then you forget about it. Um, so it was this and now it's this, it was really helpful. Because I always ask that as a question. How were they, when was the last time they ate? Uh, because some people are like, well, you know, I don't, I don't really know. Or and I ask that a lot, when when were they last normal? Was it yesterday? Was it, oh no, maybe it was Monday? You know, they start thinking back, and before you know it, it's been five days that the pet's been sick or not feeling well. You know, and and just in the moment, it's is the pet like the limping dog? You always say, oh, a limping dog doesn't really need to go to the ER. But if the dog was limping in the morning and now can't use its back legs in the afternoon and now can't get up at all by the evening, now that limping dog from the morning now became an emergency because they can't walk. But if you hadn't kept track of that, and it's tricky because if you found them late in the day and now they can't walk at all, now it's an emergency. Yeah. Versus it's been limping for a month, can probably wait.

Amy Castro: 29:09
Yeah. And I've seen I've seen a lot of that thing. You know, it's like when people will ask my opinion, which is don't ever ask my opinion. No, I'm just kidding. But they'll ask my first question is always, how long has it been going on? Because if it's been limping for a month, why would it suddenly be an emergency today? What's changed?

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 29:25
It's an emergency because they're going on a one-month vacation to France. So now it's an emergency. So we do get that sometimes where yes, it's been going on for two weeks, but now, oh, I'm going away for the next two weeks. So I need to come in on Sunday because I need this fixed now because I'm leaving on Monday.

Amy Castro: 29:45
Yeah, you don't want it hanging over your head, or for for it to suddenly start to progress while you're gone and somebody else is in charge. You know, you made me think about something too that would be good advice for people is, you know, if you live with another human being, you know, whether it's children or an adult, to make sure there's good communication between you and them. This happened fairly recently because my little Chihuahua tanky is a food hound. Like she does not leave food behind. And I happened to comment when I went to go pick up her bowl that there was still food in there. And I commented to my daughter, she's like, oh yeah, it's been like it's been like that for two days. It's like, well, hold the hold on for a minute here, you know. And what we discovered was, and she actually had a vet appointment that week just anyway, but I had been giving her a different kind of food that she doesn't like quite as much. She likes it when it's fresh and warm, she doesn't like it when it's cold out of the fridge. Anyway, so she and also she has no teeth. So if you don't, which she has not, she's not always good about chopping it up into little pieces or adding some water to make it more of a soup. And it's like, well, how do you expect her to gum that big scoop of dog food you put in there? It's like a quarter of a can, one solid chunk. You gotta break. Anyway, the communication is important so that these symptoms or these issues get identified as soon as possible. And you don't find out like I did. Oh, yeah, it's been going on for three days. It could be something, you know, it could have been something serious.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 31:07
People put cameras now too. I have so many clients that have litter box cameras because they've had a cat with an obstruction before. So they have a little camera that's on the litter box. So when they're at work for 12 hours, they know that the cat is okay because they've had an obstruction before. So they've got all these camera systems so you can keep track of stuff, or if you have multiple cats and you don't know which one is having the problem or multiple dogs, you you know, you set up cameras and find out. But like you said with your dog, if my dog doesn't eat, then she's going to the ER because there has got to be something extremely wrong for her to eat because she eats everything always in an instant. And that's something because I know that dog. Whereas you may have a finicier dog that, you know, okay, that's their normal not to eat every day. But yeah, she's got I have a clients that brought them in, you know what? This dog did not eat breakfast, they have never done that before. Something has to be seriously wrong.

Amy Castro: 32:04
Yeah. And it's interesting too when you do pay attention to the things, you start, you do start to recognize those patterns. And anybody that's been through a situation with a cat with a with a blockage, I mean, that it can be so dangerous so fast that you become super paranoid about it afterwards. And in addition to having litter boxes with cameras, they have some that, and they may have evolved and now they have cameras too. But I had one at one point because I've got three cats that would it would track exactly who went in there and how many times a day because it could it weighed the cats. And then my cats are pretty significantly different in the in their weights. But that was super helpful to know who because it is tricky to know when you've got multiples who's using the litter box and who's not, or who's got diarrhea all of a sudden. My blind cat the other day, the only reason I figured out it was her with the diarrhea is because her butt was dirty. Um, so but it's you know, it can be tricky when you're scooping. So I think what a lot of this is gonna go back to, you know, is just putting it out to all the pet parents out there that in the end, you know, some of this is gonna be more cut and dried decision, and some of this is gonna be a judgment call. And using the scenarios that we've talked about so far will help you make some of these decisions. But what would you tell or what have you told pet parents who feel like, you know, oh, I'm I'm probably just overreacting? Because I know I do that, and but I'm also the one that had to go to the emergency room to have an emergency gallbladder removal at midnight because

Amy Castro: 33:32
define excruciating, define us, you know, like I don't I maybe I don't feel like I have a super high tolerance for pain, but apparently I do because I thought, oh, I can wait till morning on this, and then I it just got so bad that I thought, I don't want to die waiting on this, so maybe I should just go ahead and go. But that's me. So I'm I can't be trusted to to go early.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 33:56
Yeah. Yeah, but it's always better safe than sorry if if the emergency hospital is open and you've got the time and it's not a big financial burden, and most of the time your emergency charges are very similar to your regular vet charges. It's just that they're doing all this stuff at once. They're doing the blood work, they're doing the x-ray. So it may seem like it's more, but everything's getting done at the same time. So it just adds up quick. But you work Monday, peace of mind, just to make sure they're okay. It there's nothing wrong with being overreactive. It's your pet, you're the pet parent. Don't have other people make you think that it's wrong to bring them in because the toenail is broken or the ear is red or it sneeze three times. It's it's okay. As veterinarians, we we don't mind. It's something that we're happy to take care of. And I don't feel as though you can ever be overreactive for your pet because they can't talk and they can't tell you. And my clients are so good at picking up on very subtle symptoms. They'll come in and say, hmm, it's something is just not right because they know their pet. And I don't know their pet as well as them. So they may pick up on something that's the beginning of something much larger that's hiding. Yeah.

Amy Castro: 35:13
And I'm glad you said that about the pricing, because I'll be perfectly honest, I'm the first one that would say, you know, that in my initial thought is you can't walk in the emergency vet for under $1,500. I mean, I I have that stuck in my head, but the only thing that's based on is the fact that the last time I went to the emergency vet, that's the number that they gave me to start off with. But but it's such a good point what you said too, because when they go in and they're doing that initial assessment, they're giving you the number for all the things that they're gonna do right then and there. Whereas if it wasn't an emergency, which is more what we're used to, right? You go into your regular vet, they're gonna start and they're gonna be like, well, let's start with this. So you you might end up spending $1,500 on a similar thing, but it might be spread out over one or two visits or over the course of a hospitalization or something like that.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 36:04
Well, some of those things like x-rays and blood work, sometimes it saves time. If if my clients have been to the ER, like if they go to the ER the night before, the ER always sends them back the next day for a follow-up, at least where we are. Um, I'm sometimes happy that they've done the blood work, they've done the x-rays, they've ruled out a lot of things, and I'm happy to go over with the client those results and say, okay, now we know all this is okay or all this is a problem. Here's where we're going to proceed from here. So they've saved us doing all that stuff ahead of time is is helpful. So the ER can really, you know, sometimes we can't fit them in for all that stuff the next day, whereas they've got it all done because they were proactive, wanted to make sure everything was okay, and it just rules a lot of things out. Yeah.

Amy Castro: 36:53
Well, then that also makes me think that, you know, when you think about it, flipping that scenario around is just because you go to an emergency vet and they say these are all the things that we can do, you know. Of course, if it's a life and death emergency, you're going to do those things. But if it turns out, okay, maybe it's not a life and death emergency, maybe it could have waited, or some of it could have waited. As the pet parent, you know, you're advocating for your pet. So you have the right to say, hey, what absolutely needs to be done now? And are there some things that could wait? So for example, um I had a friend who took their cat to the vet the other day because the cat was in a room that they didn't know she she never goes into that room, and she was in that room, and then somebody else came to visit with a dog, and she put the dog in that room, closed the door, everybody went around their business. Nobody heard anything, nobody heard any cat fights, cat screaming, or anything like that. But when they went back in, there was blood everywhere. The cat was wet, so obviously the dog had mouthed the cat and nobody knew what was going on. So they went to the emergency event. Long and the short of it was the cat was fine. It had a broken toenail, which is where all the blood came from, but the emergency room was not going to do x-rays. And when the client brought up the x-rays, they were like, Well, we could do them if you want. And she said, Well, I'll wait and have that done at my regular vet. So that just goes to show that if you want to do something different or do something more and it can wait, you can ask about it or you can see what their thoughts are and not necessarily do everything at the emergency vet.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 38:26
Yeah. Ask questions. You know, they'll give you an estimate of services, and that gives time too. An hour may elapse while you're there, and now the pet is is breathing better. That cat that was in the room with the dog, oh, you know, it's been an hour, the toenail's broken, he seems okay, his vitals are okay. All right, so we don't need the x-ray. But if during that hour the breathing has changed on that cat, maybe that dog did pick up the cat and and squeeze it and puncture the lung, that now an hour later the cat is in respiratory distress. So going to the ER just to make sure it's okay gives you a little bit of of time and another pair of eyes on it. You know, what are the, you know, you have an expert there looking at it saying, you know, I think it, I think it's okay. Or you have one that says, hmm, I think maybe we have some broken ribs and we need to act on this.

Amy Castro: 39:18
Yeah. It's funny you say that because when the when they went in and they found the cat, the cat was on the bed and the cat was like almost like comatose and it was panting and obviously it was very freaked out. So when that's exactly what you described, is exactly what happened is the cat went in in this state of high distress, and then an hour or two hours later, the the vet comes back out and says, Well, she's walking around and she's you know, I petted her and I we we did this and that, and this cat's not super friendly, so she's like, I'm sorry, you talking about the gray cat with the you know what because she couldn't believe that was her cat, not only because her cat would not tolerate that, but also because the cat was just like laid out and she thought the cat was basically gonna die, and now the cat's walking around and purring or whatever it was. So things can change rapidly one one direction or the other. So um it kind of goes back to the old being safe versus being sorry. Sorry. Yep. Um I know I've said it twice at least, but this idea of you know, you're the one that has to live with it in the end. And obviously, we're gonna make decisions in life, and sometimes we're gonna regret that we made the wrong one. But if you can go into it saying, what can I live with? What could I possibly regret if I'm making a mistake? If it's worth it for you and you can make it happen, go ahead and eliminate that regret from your decision-making process as much as possible. Um so

Amy Castro: 40:41
if somebody was listening to this and you know, we've we've talked about a lot of different scenarios and things to consider, what would be like one final piece of advice or key point from this conversation that you would want them to take away?

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 40:56
I think that some emergencies are unavoidable. You know, they get hit by a car, they're, you know, they're bleeding, they can't breathe, they're collapsed, they have a seizure. But if you observe your pet and know your pet well, some of those emergencies you can avoid. So your your idea is to try and avoid the emergency by being aware, as opposed to getting into a situation where now it becomes an emergency. So know your pet, know your vet's hours, know your ER hours, just have a little bit of knowledge, and that'll really help you maybe avoid the ER.

Amy Castro: 41:32
Yeah. And you had made that point too about the the progression of things over the course of a day. Sometimes you give it a day or you give it two days, and it's like if something's happening on Tuesday and it's still happening Wednesday, like you're already heading towards that weekend situation, you know. You can either take that risk or you can try to get into your own vet before that situation comes up. So looking at that big picture is is a good idea too, rather than just the moment and time. Yeah, it's hard.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 42:00
The emergency hospitals will always say to come in because for liability, they really can't say anything but come in because they don't know. Like the cat in the room with the dog, I'd be like, definitely go. Any of any of those big dogs, if somebody says my dog, it was a dog fight and it's a big dog, little dog, then they say I don't see any wounds, but they're not right. They all have to come in because usually there's no punctures on the ones that are the worst.

Amy Castro: 42:28
Dr. Atkins, I appreciate you being here once again and helping set us straight on this issue because it is a huge struggle for pet parents, but you've definitely given us some points to help each person who's listening make the right decision for them, their situation, and their pet. So I really appreciate that.

Dr. Linda Atkins, DVM: 42:44
Well, you're very welcome. I hope it helps with, you know, there's so many different situations and so many emergencies. So we try and keep it broad and general, and hopefully those points will help you make that decision.

Amy Castro: 42:55
This is one of those decisions where you're never going to have perfect certainty in the moment. And that's the part that people really struggle with. But what you heard today is that waiting isn't neutral. It's a choice, and it comes with risk just like going in does. If something feels off with your pet, don't rely on search results, social media advice, or hoping it passes. Call your veterinarian, call an emergency vet, or go in if you're worried. And if this episode helped you feel a little more confident about how to think through that decision, please share it with another pet parent who might need that reminder the next time they're stuck wondering, is this an emergency or can it wait? Thanks for listening to the Pet Parent Hotline. If you enjoyed the show, don't keep it to yourself. Text a friend right now with a link and tell them I've got a show that you need to hear. And ask them to let you know what they think. And remember, your pet's best life starts with you living yours. So be sure to take good care of yourself this week and your pets.