Episode Title

Help! My Child Is Allergic to Our Pet, Now What?

Host

Amy Castro

Guest

Dr. Tori Niemynski

Summary

Before you jump to rehoming your dog or cat because your child may be allergic, investigate first. In this episode, Amy Castro talks with board-certified pediatrician Dr. Tori Niemynski about what pet allergies in kids can look like, what symptoms may point to something else, what parents should track, what simple changes may help at home, and when it makes sense to involve a pediatrician or allergist. They also discuss the myth of hypoallergenic pets, how to think more clearly before making a permanent decision, and why rehoming should not be the automatic first step.

Links

Show: PetParentHotline.com
Guest: meetdrtori.com
Instagram: @yourpediatricianbestie

Transcript Note

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability while preserving the meaning, tone, and original flow of the conversation.

Chapters

00:00 Before You Rehome, Listen to This First
01:48 Why Parents Panic So Fast
04:48 What Symptoms to Watch and Track
11:23 What to Try Before Rehoming
18:46 Home Changes That Can Help
26:11 When Rehoming Becomes the Hard Choice
35:21 How to Slow Down and Think Clearly
39:10 Connect With Dr. Tori Niemynski

Transcript

Amy Castro (00:00)
Before you rehome your pet because you think your child is allergic, please listen to this first. Too many families make a heartbreaking decision before they know what's really causing the symptoms, what questions they need to ask, or what options they might still have. So today we're talking about how to slow it down, get better information, and make a thoughtful decision instead of a panicked one. So stay tuned.

You've reached the Pet Parent Hotline, your lifeline to practical solutions for your toughest pet parenting challenges. I'm your host Amy Castro, and I'm here to help you cut through the noise and turn expert advice into step-by-step strategies so you can stop chasing your tail and start enjoying life with pets again.

Welcome back to the Pet Parent Hotline. I'm Amy Castro. And if you found this show because you're worried about your pet and your kids and you don't know what to do next, you're in the right place. Today I'm joined by Dr. Tori Niemynski, a board certified pediatrician with more than 10 years of clinical experience in both office and ER settings. Dr. Tori's passionate about helping parents feel more confident and less panicked when it comes to their child's health. And she shares practical real-world guidance as an educator and creator at Your Pediatrician Bestie. In this episode, I wanted to talk with her about what symptoms may or may not point to pet allergies, what parents should do before making any major decisions, and when it might make sense to keep digging instead of assuming that the pet is the problem.

And be sure to stick around because one of the most important parts of this conversation is why rehoming your pet should not be the automatic first step. Dr. Tori, thanks so much for being on the show.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (01:46)
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat.

Amy Castro (01:48)
Me too, this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart, not only because we went through this scenario with my daughter when she was little. And then as somebody who does rescue, I'm the one that takes those phone calls from the pet parents who are looking to rehome their pets. Because as a matter of fact, we just had two cats returned after five years. They were adopted from us as kittens five years ago for their twins. And then a year and a half ago, they had another baby. Turns out that baby is allergic to cats and now we have the cats back. I think it's not only terrible to get cats back after five years, but it's gotta be so hard on families and for children to give up pets that they've had most of their lives. So why do you think it kind of escalates from my kids got the sniffles and now we're automatically looking at the pet with a side eye? Like it's their fault.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (02:40)
Mm-hmm. And you know, we'll talk about it, but sometimes it is and even that is maybe not the disaster that they think it might be initially. I think it comes down to parents want to take perfect care of their kids and they don't want any harm to come to their kids and as hard as it is to make decisions between your kids and your pets, at the end of the day, you are inclined to choose your kids.

And some of it is anxiety. There's a lot of anxiety around allergies. There's a lot of anxiety around health, child health in general, I find. And so I think people's natural impulse is to jump right to panic. And so I'm happy we're having this conversation so that maybe we can rein that in a little bit.

Amy Castro (03:23)
Yeah, that's great. And I think sometimes, like you said, the panic sets in and people kind of get ahead of themselves. So what are some of the symptoms that parents are seeing that are causing them concern?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (03:34)
The symptoms that we see, I mean, I've worked in the office, I've worked in the urgent care, I've worked in the emergency room, and so commonly we're seeing kids in all of those spaces for coughs, for runny nose, for stuffy nose, for rashes, things like that, which can be confusing because there's lots of different causes to those particular symptoms, and sometimes it is unclear from the parent's perspective.

Amy Castro (03:58)
Yeah. It seems like something where if a child's gonna have an allergy, you would know about it sooner than later versus, we've had our pets for a certain amount of time and now suddenly it's becoming an issue. Is it possible for kids to develop allergies to pets that they've had for a while?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (04:14)
It is actually possible. I know it seems like that. You're like, what? We've been doing this forever. But it actually is possible to develop allergies later in childhood, even into adulthood. If you've had cats for 33 years, you could still develop an allergy later on. So it is something definitely to keep in mind. And sometimes it takes a little while for them to develop, even if it's not on the scale of years. But it can seem, you know, if you do a trial run for a couple of days and everything seems gravy, then you're like, woohoo, we're in the green zone. And then a month later, we're noticing that we're having some symptoms. So it absolutely is possible.

Amy Castro (04:48)
Okay. And are there any symptoms that a child might have that would lean more towards being a pet versus something environmental or something in the air because it's springtime?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (04:58)
You know, it's hard to make that distinction. I would say pet allergies are considered an environmental allergy. So it can be from the outside or pollen or whatever it is you mentioned, and it can be pet dander. And the symptoms of allergies, in general, that differentiate a little bit from other causes of illness with cough and congestion, things like that, tends to be more sneezing with allergies. We see more red, itchy, watery eyes and noses, some facial swelling.

Things like that can make some differentiation. But I would say when we're thinking about allergies versus illness, if that's kind of the point we're at to try and figure things out, I always recommend parents, if they're noticing new symptoms, to document those symptoms in a symptom diary or just jot it down in a note on your phone because the pattern is really where we get a lot of our answers.

With a cold, it tends to be acute. It's all of a sudden we're here and we're having a natural progression of the way symptoms and colds go and then it goes away. And if you're noticing, hmm, every time we have this particular exposure, we're having symptoms afterwards, or I'm noticing that this is kind of ramping up and doesn't seem to be going away, that can be incredibly useful information to guide next steps.

Amy Castro (06:17)
That's such a good point too, because I'm one of those people, if suddenly I started sneezing or having a sneezy day or sniffing a lot, it's like, it just is. Like I don't automatically try to seek the source of it or try to keep track of it. And that's such a smart thing to do because there probably are patterns that you're gonna notice. I wasn't even thinking along the lines of just a cold.

To me, it would be common sense that you would know the difference, but not necessarily, especially school-aged kids and they're getting exposed to things. So I could see how it could become very confusing to sort all that out. So when it comes to, I'm noticing this problem, I wanna start ferreting it out. What kind of information should I be tracking? Cause I think that idea of tracking is great. Make yourself a little spreadsheet and note what-

Dr. Tori Niemynski (07:07)
Yeah. And to your point, I don't expect that everybody, like as soon as their child has a single symptom, they're like whipping out their notebook. Like that's not realistic. Yeah, there are spreadsheets. We've got Excel about it. And there are some parents who are that organized. I honor that, but that's not real life for most people. So I think once it starts to become a concern, right? Because if you're just having a sneezy day, you're not worried about that, then who cares? Forget about it if you want to. But once it starts rising to the level of going like, we might have a problem here, that's really when I would recommend kind of starting the process.

So otherwise, I feel like if you're always documenting symptoms, it can feel overwhelming. But I would say the things to really just bear in mind, and it's so helpful in the moment, because who can remember, literally, what did I have for lunch yesterday, let alone what's been going on for the past three weeks when somebody asks you in the doctor's office? So I would say creating certain times where you check in. Maybe that's once a day. Maybe it's twice a day once you have the concern.

And just jot it down. Hmm, they woke up this morning complaining of a stuffy nose and a sore throat, but the sore throat went away by this evening when I checked in. That's of note. They don't have that anymore. They don't have any fevers. That's worth noting. We had a grooming day with the dogs yesterday and all of a sudden today, their face is swollen and they are complaining that their eyes are itchy. Hmm, that's of note. So there are lots of things just about, what are the symptoms that we're seeing?

Have any new symptoms arrived or old symptoms disappeared, because that's information. Are we noticing any patterns with timing and exposures? Those are the sorts of things that I would want parents to keep in mind.

Amy Castro (08:46)
Yeah, I would think too, over the course of a year, you might see different things too, and maybe be able to tie that to something that is seasonal versus the pet. And it's funny because we talk about that on the show, when we talk about animals having problems and you go to the vet and the vet's like, well, when did that start? I don't know, maybe it was a couple of weeks ago, you know, were they running a fever? I don't know. It sure helps when you go to the doctor to have a little bit more information.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (09:13)
And if you have that information, it makes your doctor visits so much more worthwhile. You know, I know a lot of times parents, people that, I mean, this applies to kids and animals, but you get there and you feel frustrated because you went there because you want answers. And our answers really require your history. And if there's no real history there, then it's really hard to know. Then we both stare at each other and go, well, it could be this, it could be that, you should go figure it out. And so if you've done some of that legwork before you arrive in the office, then you'll feel so much more productive and you'll be able to make moves quicker.

Amy Castro (09:49)
Yeah, that's a good point because I can think of many times going to the doctor and then I'm sent home to track. Now I've got to go back again, whereas we could have saved two weeks worth of time if I'd done that upfront and had that information. Along those lines, how does a parent know, like, it is time to go in and see the pediatrician versus should I just kind of treat at home and see what kind of response I'm getting?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (10:13)
That's a great question and I think it really comes down to what are the severity of the symptoms. If there's a sniffle here and there and it's not something that's being really impactful to life, well, then you have a much longer runway. If it's something where now we're having a hard time getting going in the morning because we're having to deal with all the congestion and all the sniffles and all the this and that, or now we're having extreme fatigue because allergies are an inflammatory process.

Or certainly for having severe allergies, it's very uncommon to have anything like anaphylaxis, which is the one where we worry about stopping breathing and multi-system involvement from pet allergies, unless asthma. Certainly asthma is a contributor that can make it much more severe. So obviously in that case, it would be an emergency and we have to go right now. So it really just comes down to how impactful is this?

Amy Castro (11:06)
Yeah. So along that line of making those visits productive, I'm going to track symptoms however long I've been tracking them, bring that information to the pediatrician's office. What other questions do you think I should be prepared to ask when I get there?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (11:23)
Yeah, I think, well, let's just jump back a step, because I think I missed a part of your question about whether or not we should try things at home. I think that's very person dependent, and it just depends on the comfort level. If you're comfortable doing that, I'm comfortable as a pediatrician having you do that with over-the-counter medications that are readily available if you're following those directions. And that can be a really helpful step in even avoiding the doctor's office sometimes, because from my perspective, and allergists may disagree, not sure, we'll have to ask them, but sometimes if it's mild to moderate symptoms that you can manage with just symptomatic treatment like nasal rinses, like an air filter at home, I mean, we can dive into all the different kinds of interventions you can do later, but if you can manage symptoms in a way that you're now comfortable, then what do you need me for?

If we can do over-the-counter Zyrtec once a day or things like that, then that's a great option. So it is reasonable to try some of those things before you end up at the doctor, pending the comfort level of each individual.

Amy Castro (12:30)
I'm glad you brought that up because I tend to troll a lot of animal Facebook groups, things like that. And someone will put out there, hey, we're rehoming our cat because my child's allergic. And people jump on it and they're like, just give him whatever.

They just want to medicate the child versus giving up the pet. And I can see both sides of it, but I can also see like, do I want my child to take Zyrtec every day or have to do like the nasal rinses, you know, and going through these processes. But what would you say to people that said, you know, I don't want to have to give my child these treatments because of a pet?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (13:08)
Then I would say that is fair and that makes your decision making a little bit easier. Everybody has different priorities and everybody has different life requirements and things that are going on. And so sometimes we do have to kind of choose our hard. It's hard to give up a pet and it's also hard to maintain a home with a child who has allergies to that pet. And so if one of those is simply intolerable or off the table, well then I guess we have our answer.

I think it becomes more of a conversation for people who are in that zone of being like, I really don't want to give up my cats that I've had for five years and I want my child to be healthy. What are the options for that? And that's where you can get advice from your doctor in the office and you can try some things before or after that.

Amy Castro (13:59)
Yeah, and I would think also it depends on the age of the child. It's easier to hand a 12 year old a pill every day than to get a younger child to take medicine or to do a saline rinse of the nose. And it's like, talk about choosing your hard. That could be the hard right there.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (14:17)
Yeah, that's totally, totally true.

Amy Castro (14:19)
So in leading into this idea of questions for the pediatrician, I felt, and of course this was a long time ago, that it was a very quick, “Do you have pets? Do you have cats? Get rid of the cats.” That was kind of how the conversation with the doctor went. As a physician, how do you see that issue?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (14:39)
You know, I can't speak for everybody in my view of practicing and the way that I see my colleagues practice. And also now the perspectives of families have changed too, even when I was a kid. The concept of having a pet just meant something totally different. Now, pets are family members in a different way than I think we used to think of them. And you probably have a lot more experience and exposure to that than I do.

But I think we have reconceptualized what it means to have a pet and that, I mean, I hope that's what I would hope, is that people considered it a long-term commitment and really a family member. So I do think it's quite fraught for a lot of people. And I think doctors are recognizing that. And so we do want to encourage people to do whatever feels best and right for their situation as long as it remains safe. If it's clearly an unsafe situation, I don't think you're gonna find many doctors who are like, yeah, your child has very severe asthma that is very clearly triggered by this animal and your home remedies are not working and your kid is ending up in the ER and hospitalized with asthma attacks all the time. Definitely keep the animal.

No, we're not gonna prioritize that over the child's health and safety. But if it's reasonable, if symptoms can be managed well, and it's safe and healthy for the child, then I think most of us will do our best to help facilitate that.

Amy Castro (16:06)
That's good to know there's been some evolution. So other than kind of coming with that general question of how do I find this balance, are there any other questions that you think would be important to ask in that first visit?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (16:20)
When we're thinking about allergies, if we've already moved, well, I guess it depends on where we are in the conversation. If we're still at the point of the conversation where it's like, hey, is this allergies or is it not? Actually, I think we generally do recommend trials of interventions before we would necessarily go to allergy testing unless it's a severe situation.

From my perspective, now again, I'm not going to speak for anyone other than me, but in my perspective, most of the time with environmental allergies, it doesn't actually make that much of a difference in terms of what the management steps are going to be, right? So let's use the outside as an example. If I know you have a grass pollen allergy versus a ragweed allergy versus a cedar allergy, and I've done all that testing and now I know that, what does that mean? Does it change anything? Am I just gonna tell you to never go outside again?

Amy Castro (17:17)
Probably not. Yeah. Good luck.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (17:20)
Probably not. So what we're going to do is try and work towards intervening on minimizing exposures and doing supportive measures, whether we go down that road or not. So I think that's an important thing. A lot of people want to jump right to testing. And of course, there's a role for allergy testing, and I would never detract from that. But I do think it's worth the kind of, well, does it even matter metric to be a part of the conversation.

And so from that perspective, my typical recommendations, if there were concerns about allergy, if we've already gotten to the point where we've tracked symptoms and we know like, yeah, it does seem like it's pretty related to this pet, I would recommend doing several things, both with your child and with your home. I don't know if you want me to jump right into the list.

Amy Castro (18:10)
Yeah, let's go ahead and dive into that because we found the environmental management and just some things that we did related to the pets and where they were allowed to go made such a huge difference. And we never did end up getting rid of our cats. My daughter, because we run a rescue, sometimes she'll go out to the cat building and say, “I'm going to take a Benadryl because I'm going out to rub kittens on my face,” you know? And so she knows she's going to have that reaction because she's going to have them all over herself. But yet she's managed to survive quite well.

So the management, I think, is a huge thing. So yeah, I'd love to hear what your suggestions and your tips are.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (18:46)
Yeah, so when it comes to mitigating potential allergens, I would say first when it comes to the home environment, like you mentioned, really trying to restrict the animal to specific areas and particularly keeping pets out of that child's bedroom. We spend so much time in our bedrooms and sleeping and that's just like prime time allergy exposure. So if you have an allergy and your cat's sleeping on your pillow and you're just face to fur for eight hours, that is suboptimal.

And as we know, pet dander is the protein that causes the allergy. And that can be from skin cells, it can be from saliva, it can be from urine. So there are lots of different areas where dander is found. And so being mindful of those things. We don't maybe want the child's chore to be cleaning out the litter box. We maybe want to make sure that we are keeping them out of their primary areas.

Other things, it does require a more concerted and consistent effort to keep things clean because that dander can stick around on surfaces, especially fabrics and in the air for quite a long time. It does require a certain diligence to cleaning, frequent vacuuming, mopping. I would recommend a high quality HEPA air filter to run at least for several hours a day. It can help clean out the air where possible. Avoiding carpets or low pile rugs would be preferable to thick or shag carpets where that stuff can just sit in there and get stuck forever. Things like stuffed animals or those cozies can be the favorite blanket that maybe doesn't get washed as frequently as it should. Those would be areas of particular concern that we would want to keep pets away from as well.

And then when it comes to the person, things that we can do physically, I already mentioned nasal rinses. So using saline, which is just salt and distilled water solution to kind of clear out the nasal passages where the dander likes to stick and can be irritating even well after the exposure, is a good place to start. Washing hands frequently, especially if we're interacting with the pet, like you mentioned, we can just wash some of that stuff off.

Making sure if we're exposed to known allergens, again, the sleep thing is a big deal, so I recommend showering or bathing before bed just to physically wash that stuff off. And then there are, of course, medication options as well.

Amy Castro (21:16)
Right. And I would like to add to that too, from the pet's perspective, a couple of things. Number one, for those who have cats, let's just say, because most people bathe their dogs, most people do not bathe their cats. And cats can be bathed, and they tolerate it a lot better if you start when they're young. So bathing with the right type of shampoo can help reduce those allergens.

And then I also want to mention Purina makes a LiveClear food and that saliva, as being a source of allergies, they identified what molecule in their saliva causes the allergies or causes a lot of the allergies. And they've created a food that is egg-based protein that helps get rid of that molecule. So that might be something to investigate too.

You know, we're talking about talking to your pediatrician. You can also talk to your veterinarian and see, hey, what can I do to make this pet less allergenic and see what their suggestions are? So those would be some other things I would say. But I think the environment, it's such a huge thing. I mean, the difference between changing your bedding more frequently and just vacuuming and dusting more frequently. So that's such a good point, to really be diligent and get rid of the carpet in the bedroom, that kind of thing. So that's some great advice there.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (22:40)
That's a great point about the pets. I didn't think to add that. And of course, I didn't mention every single possible thing in the home. I've been talking all day. To your point, staying on top of that. But that is potentially a barrier for parents. They're like, now I have to raise this child and do all these things and I have to vacuum three times a day. Like, okay. So, you know, I can understand how it's really important to consider all these factors.

Amy Castro (23:05)
Right. Well, I think sometimes just experimenting with some of those things. I mean, like you mentioned, the pillow, that's such a huge one. So I think starting with a couple of things just to help. You don't have to do all of these things that we're talking about. So don't panic out there now.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (23:19)
Yeah, exactly.

Amy Castro (23:21)
You had mentioned a couple of kind of scary things with asthma and ending up in the emergency room. So at what point do I make that decision that I need to go see an allergy specialist? And what would be the benefit if it's one of those things, well, we identified the cats, but we've decided we're not going to give them up. Is there still a benefit to going to an allergist?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (23:44)
Yeah, I think that's a great question. I definitely would encourage everybody to have that conversation with their pediatrician because practice is so different everywhere and around the country. I would say I would certainly recommend allergy referral if we have done some of those upfront things. We've tried some modifications to home. We've tried some modifications to lifestyle or personal factors. And maybe even we tried some over-the-counter antihistamines, maybe we've tried doing like a daily Zyrtec or Claritin, maybe we've tried a nasal steroid spray, things like that. And if we're not really seeing the improvement, then I think it's time to get the allergist involved.

When it comes to more severe symptoms, I think that always would prompt a referral to allergy sooner because the worse it is, the more concerned we have to be and the more attentive we have to be to the issue.

And even if it's not testing, that is their area of particular expertise and maybe they have more specific recommendations or other specific things that they can try that I just don't know off the top of my head or that your pediatrician might not know.

Amy Castro (24:52)
Sure. If you're identified as being allergic to something, do they still do allergy shots for certain things to basically reduce your reaction to that? Yeah.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (25:03)
Allergy shots definitely are a thing and that is something that's usually guided by an allergist rather than a pediatrician. So that would be if we were at that point of thinking about allergy shots, that would be one of those additional treatments that they would kind of manage or consider for you.

And certainly, the thing that's so hard about it is that allergy testing, while it's great that we have tests, so much of it really is dependent on symptoms. That's why, again, even going back to the beginning, tracking, monitoring those symptoms, are we getting better? Are we getting worse? is so critical to the conversation because that is really truly what guides most of our management. And I would say a specific plug to asthma, you know, allergies are annoying and they can have long-term impacts to inflammation and things like that. But mostly environmental allergies, including pet allergies, are not life-threatening, except with asthma. Asthma, that kind of changes the whole ballgame because asthma is a serious chronic lung disease. And if you're triggered by allergens, then it really is of utmost importance to get that figured out sooner than later.

Amy Castro (26:11)
Yeah, don't want to mess around with that for sure. Yeah, I know. Minor detail. So let's talk about rehoming the pets. At some point, some families may decide they've tried what they can and it still isn't working. You've been a pet parent, so when it comes to having that conversation about rehoming, how do you talk with parents about that to kind of help them make that decision?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (26:16)
Breathing is pretty important, it turns out.

Amy Castro (26:39)
Or maybe even just feel better about it if they've already decided it's gotta be done.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (26:43)
Yeah, that's a great question because I do, I mean, yeah, I truly am obsessed with my former dog Penny. I loved her so much. I still do. And she really was a family member to me, like I put her on that level as I know so many do. And so it is heart wrenching if you have to lose your pet for any reason and especially one that feels like maybe there was some way it didn't have to happen or it doesn't have to happen. So first, I am just so empathetic to that situation because it is a terrible place to be put. So I would acknowledge that first. Like it is terrible to have to make that decision.

And I think, especially from my perspective as a pediatrician and when I'm talking to parents, my belief is that it's a parent's number one job to ensure the health and safety of their child. And if you have done what you can to try and make it work and it's just not working, then you're doing a good job and you're doing the right thing by rehoming your pet in that situation because it's not fair to your growing child to put them in a situation where they're ill or just constantly symptomatic. And it's not really fair to your pet to be put in the position of being maybe sequestered outside now or to have their total life circumstances changed in a negative way to accommodate keeping the pet, but not really keeping the pet, if that makes sense.

So I think just being mindful, I think as doctors, empathy is always kind of at the front of what we do, or it should be, I would hope. And so acknowledging, yeah, this is a hard thing. And also based on where we are right now, I think this is the right thing. And just getting that validation kind of said out loud, I think is helpful because it's hard.

Amy Castro (28:31)
Yeah, you're talking about rehoming a pet is hard no matter the situation. One of the things that I struggle with as a rescue person, and I think this is where rescue people often get a little snippy when somebody posts about giving up a pet, is that people jump right to getting rid of the pet. Even these two cats that recently got returned, it's like...

Well, have you tried this? Have you tried, like, they literally tried nothing. You know, it was like, my child's allergic to the cats, and we want to return them after five years. And it's frustrating on the rescue side that, you know, I realize that not everybody's gonna go through all of the steps, but I sure wish people would at least try a couple of them before they just make that knee-jerk decision. What do you think as far as, like, questions that I would ask myself? Have I done, you know, this, this, this, is there a way to kind of pull this all together, you know, and probe a little bit?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (29:30)
Absolutely, I think that is a really good point because there are always going to be some people who just don't have the interest in finding the more elegant solution. They're just going to go from zero to 100 and sometimes there's nothing that we can really do about that. But I agree with you that it's really important for pet parents to know that they can do things, that there are things that they can try. And so whether it's a checklist, mental or physical or otherwise, I think, A, confirming to your point, are we certain that this is an allergy? And either we can be certain of that via allergy testing or we can be certain of that because we've tracked the symptoms and we've done interventions and we've noticed changes. That can be enough evidence from my perspective, even without allergy testing.

Have we confirmed that we have tried to do the things that we are willing and able to try to do that are within our capacity to do? And I think that's probably the area where if you're not the person who's prepared to just throw the animals away or get rid of them, then that's probably the area where you feel the most propensity towards guilt maybe. And we do have to assess capacity because that's an important thing. Because if you've now committed to doing this thing, then you have to do it. So I think bearing that in mind from the top and just saying, well, these are the things that I am able to do. These are the things that I'm willing to do. Have I done those?

And if there's nothing on that list, then again, your answer is pretty easy. But if there are several things on that list, then great, go down that list and then reassess, where are we? Are we in a place that's manageable? Are we in a place where actually now this has become so much more overwhelming that I can't do it well and I don't want to? Then I think, yeah, like we talked about, it is reasonable. But at least then it gives the pet parent the peace of mind that we've done the things that we can do. We've at least thought it through. And there was some energy and effort put into this rather than just an immediate jump to worst case scenario.

Amy Castro (31:34)
That makes a lot of sense because I think that's exactly where people get stuck. It's one thing if you've truly worked through all the options. And it's another thing if you go straight from my child might be allergic to the pet's gotta go without even trying much of anything first. And I think the capacity piece matters too. Every family has to be honest about what they are realistically willing and able to do and do it in a consistent way.

Okay, so really some of the questions are, have we confirmed this is actually the pet? Have we tried the things that we're willing and able to try? And have we given them enough time to see whether they actually help? And that brings up something else I think confuses a lot of people, this idea of hypoallergenic pets. People hear that and assume it means guaranteed safe, no problems, and that's just not really true.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (32:25)
You know what? The one thing that I feel it is my duty as a doctor to mention, and I think my allergy colleagues would appreciate it, is dispelling the myth of hypoallergenic animals. When it comes to cats, dogs, birds specifically, any animals with fur or feathers, there's no such thing. The whole idea around goldendoodles being hypoallergenic, I mean, great marketing, but that's just not a thing that exists in reality. Is it possible for some breeds to be less allergenic, to have less dander than others? Yes. But again, if they have skin cells and they have saliva and they have urine, then there's gonna be dander there.

And so I think that's really important for people to know because I think the narrative has been manipulated in a lot of ways and so people are now spending lots of money to get pets, which that's a whole other conversation, and then being disappointed maybe when their child is actually still allergic to this one as well. And now we find ourselves in the very same situation we were hoping to avoid. So I just think that is a really important thing for people to know before they get a pet if there's any concern for allergies.

Amy Castro (33:43)
So for families thinking about getting a pet in the first place, especially if allergies may be a concern, spending real time around that type of animal and probably even better around that specific animal before making a commitment is really important.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (33:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I think that's really important because I think people do think, like, they went to a birthday party and they had a dog and they didn't have any trouble. And it's like, okay, well, that doesn't really have anything to do with anything. So I would really encourage parents to make a real strong effort to exactly like you said, expose and be aware that it's not foolproof. Sometimes you can be around a cat or a dog in close contact for a little bit of time and it not create symptoms because it can be either delayed or kind of quote unquote dose dependent. So there's no way of making it foolproof. And there is some truth to the idea that animals who shed less might have less dander. So that might make symptoms more tolerable. But I think just the headline of any pet being quote unquote hypoallergenic and parents thinking, phew, cross that problem off the list, is misleading.

Amy Castro (34:50)
Yeah, I think especially knowing that your child has allergies to animals in some way, to really do as much handling, visiting, interacting, in close quarters as you possibly can before you make that decision. Because that's always a challenge. Kids want what they want. And the reality of once you get at home is a whole nother ball of wax. And if a pet parent is listening right now in the middle of this and is starting to panic,

Dr. Tori Niemynski (35:09)
Totally.

Amy Castro (35:16)
I'd like to go ahead and talk about how to slow down and think a little bit more clearly.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (35:21)
Yeah, I think that is one of my main messages in general, just as a pediatrician and having the platform that I have, is most of the time we don't need to panic. So that's the first step, is just, I understand that parents are very reactive when it comes to their kids' health. And on the one hand, I love that because great, let's prioritize kids' health. But on the other hand, sometimes we take it to the nth degree and really, we don't have to live there. So my first step would be just try and come back to a level where you can feel grounded and you can feel regulated and you can make decisions based on reason and rationality and kind of get out of that emotional space because it's really easy to get in there and sometimes it's hard to get out.

So that would be my first thing that I would recommend to parents, is to just take a deep breath and again, consider, like, what are we looking at? What are we seeing? Not from an anxiety control perspective, but truly, what are we seeing? What is happening? What are we noticing? And that gets back to the data collection kind of piece of it, because I personally find that data is comforting. Knowledge is power. When we know things that we can see in front of us, we have evidence that is really helpful to help figure out what to do next. Where do we go from here?

And so I think parents and people in general often just skip right over that step. And that's the step that really gives you all the agency. So I would say to make sure we're just coming down a little bit, we are assessing the situation from a place of logic and what is actually happening in reality and not what are our fears about what could happen. Oh my gosh, this could get so much worse. Oh my gosh, they could X, Y, and Z. Now it's a nightmare and you're planning 10 steps in the future. So just reverting back to where we are in the present space.

And most of the time with allergies, again, unless it's an emergency and they can't breathe or they can't speak, those are things that you call 911. Below that, we have some time to make some decisions and it's not something that we have to do in the very moment most of the time.

Amy Castro (37:34)
I guess just to kind of wrap things up, any other final takeaways that you wanted to leave or any final thoughts on the subject of allergies and kids and keeping your pets, hopefully?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (37:44)
Yeah, I would just encourage parents to be mindful. I think that pets are an amazing addition to a family and to a home, particularly homes with kids. People who grow up with pets, I think, are incredibly lucky as long as that is done safely and mindfully.

When it comes to allergies, you know, we can't predict everything in the future. If you find yourself in a situation where you have a child that does have an allergy, I don't think that's anything to feel overly guilty about or overly upset about in terms of your role or like you somehow caused this to be a thing. Sometimes we don't know until we know and that's reasonable. So I think, as with everything, weighing the pros and cons is so important and having nuance. Everything has nuance. There's amazing benefits to having pets and sometimes there are some cons, and figuring out where you are on that in terms of the responsibility and everything else that comes with it is important. But I don't want to be overly discouraging about having pets either because I think there's lots of benefits even if there are some allergies that we have to manage.

Amy Castro (38:56)
It's a balancing act. So before I let you go, tell us about Your Pediatrician Bestie. I gave the web address and I'll put it in the show notes again, but what resources do you have that are available for parents?

Dr. Tori Niemynski (39:10)
Yeah, I would love to talk about that. So I am a board certified pediatrician. I practiced clinically for over 10 years. And now I have stepped away from clinical medicine to really meet parents where they are. I was finding that I was not making the impact that I wanted to make in the exam room. And so now I am where they are, in your phone, in your living room. So I am on social media, on Instagram, @yourpediatricianbestie, where I share helpful information and tips about child health to kind of, per this whole conversation, bring people back a little bit from the edge of panic because parental anxiety, I've noticed over the last several years especially, is rising and we are living in a time where there's tons of misinformation.

And so I want to be a trusted resource for people and I want to be able to have the kind of relationship that you don't really get to have in the office most of the time, where I really am just talking to you like you're one of my friends and where I'm informal about it. I can impart some knowledge, but it doesn't have to be stuffy and it doesn't have to ignore the realities of real life. I'm also writing a book that addresses some of the most common concerns, and it's not out yet, but I am working on actually a community and a curriculum for parents who want to be supported more with child health education. And if anybody wants more information, they can find info about that on my website and sign up for my newsletter so that they will be in the know.

Amy Castro (40:37)
All right, great. Well, Dr. Tori, thank you so much for being here because this was a near and dear subject to me for a lot of reasons, as I mentioned. And I just felt it was time to attack it and you were the perfect person to help us do that. So I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the show today.

Dr. Tori Niemynski (40:56)
Well, thank you so much for having me. It was a delight to have this conversation. And I know that it is something that's on a lot of parents' minds who have pets. It's a big deal. So I'm glad we had the opportunity to talk about it.

Amy Castro (41:07)
Thanks for listening to this important episode. If you know a parent who's panicking and wondering whether their child's symptoms mean the pet has to go, please send them this episode. It could help them slow down, ask better questions of their doctor, and avoid making life-altering decisions way too fast. And if you haven't already,

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